[Paula Murff]

In today's edition of the CDispatch under pets for sale you might notice
this
"Pitbull pups, ADBA registered, 4 males, 4 females 13 wks old, $150 each
(205-454-7822)"
The original purpose of the ADBA is to promote the APBT fighting type dog
as referenced from their web site.
I have requested in the past that adds of this sort not appear in the paper,
I just can't believe the income from this ad could be substantial enough.
The harm being done can be extensive.
These people are across our state lines in AL and will be receiving several
calls from several different numbers from me today. I probably will not be
the nicest person in the world. These are the very back yard breeder/fighters
who are not only perpetuating but creating the problem with this breed.
Take action, stop them if you can. I have bought dogs to save them which
only continues their business efforts.
Call the people, call the newspaper, stop the ads, educate when possible.
Off soap box briefly
P

[ShawsAPBTs]

I felt the need to step in here. While I do agree with most of your posts, and applaud your efforts with animal control, etc. You statement above is very biased.

The ADBA was established in 1909 - and is the most widely accepted American Pit Bull Terrier registry association today. There are many others, but the ADBA is the best and most trusted registry (with DNA testing, investigation into suspicious breedings, activity, etc.)

They do not promote dog fighting. However - where your confusion may have come in is that the ADBA was not established as a 'show dog' registry - as is the AKC. The AKC breeders tend to breed more for a particular shape, 'look' or size rather than for temperament or stability...which is the way the old time dog fighters bred their dogs. If people would read up on the history of the fighting dog, they would find that dogs that showed any sort - ANY SORT - of human aggression were put down...and not bred - so the fighting dogs were the most stable and had the best temperaments.

The APBT has been bred throughout history based on performance as a working dog. A well-bred APBT has a steady temperament and is NOT inherently aggressive towards humans. They are extremely athletic, highly affectionate, and all around happy-go-lucky dogs.

They are, however, very loyal and eager to please, so that if an owner wants a dog to be aggressive toward humans and reinforces this behaviour from an early age, the dog will most likely be aggressive towards humans as an adult.

Many people equate or confuse aggressiveness towards other dogs with aggressiveness towards humans. I have seen newspaper reports in which "concerned neighbors" are quoted saying things like, "This time it killed a stray cat; tomorrow it may be my children." Yet animal-aggressiveness is an entirely different thing from human-aggressiveness. There is no reason to infer from its killing a cat that a dog, any dog, not just an APBT--will ever show aggression toward human beings. Dogs can and do discriminate, even if irate neighbors cannot.

I have lots of info about 'pit bulls' if anyone's interested. I'll post a few articles after this one. They are beautiful, loving, and full of character. Please don't discriminate.

[ShawsAPBTs]

Valuable Information

It is very important that potential owners of Pit bulls understand the history and inherited characteristics that are potentially within this breed. This page discusses some of the most typical traits of Pit bulls, including the potential for dog-aggression. This is NOT a breed to jump into ownership of half cocked. People should inform themselves of all of the issues surrounding Pit bull ownership BEFORE getting one. This includes their innate dog aggressiveness (not to be mistaken for human aggression which is totally different and should NEVER be tolerated in a dog), the negative stigma they have in society, the fact that many homeowner insurance plans will not cover Pit bull ownership, the breed specific legislation that prohibits ownership of this breed and others in too many areas, their level of energy and more. This page doesn't even begin to touch on all of these issues. Please do as much research as possible before you bring home that beautiful dog; you and your pet will both thank you for it.

Pit bulls: What's in a name?

Pit bulls have great physical and mental traits that make them excellent partners for responsible, active and caring owners. Pit bull owners should ensure that they receive enough exercise and other positive outlets for their energy. Many Pit bulls are easy going couch potatoes but can also be quite rambunctious until maturity, which can come pretty late with this breed (2 to 3 years old in some cases).

Pit bulls remain playful all their life and have a great sense of humor. These dogs are natural clowns and will make you laugh like no other breed. Remember that Pit bulls are very strong, agile and powerful dogs. Determination is probably their most notable trait. Another very important Pit bull characteristic is their love of human attention. Most Pit bulls think they are lap dogs!Ê

Human aggression, severe shyness and instability are not traits typically found in Pit bulls. Dogs with these traits are not good representatives of the breed and should not be placed into adoptive homes. The last thing our breed needs is more negative publicity.

Pit bulls: Temper, temper...

These dogs do make wonderful, loving and very loyal companions as long as you understand them well. They also require clear, consistent obedience training just like any other breed of dog. These guys may be goofy, but they are very smart and they will push a mile for every inch you give them.

Pit bulls: It takes two to tango!

There are precautions to take when owning Pit bulls, especially in a multiple-dog household. Knowing how to avoid a fight and, most importantly, how to break it up if, despite all efforts one occurs, is proof of smart and responsible Pit bull ownership. Take note that a fight can strike suddenly and for no apparent reason. Warning signs are more sometimes more subtle with Pit bulls than other common breeds. Two dogs may:

* be best friends for years
* be related
* sleep together
* cuddle
* play
* even eat from the same bowl (although this is NOT suggested)

Then one day something triggers one of them and boom! Often, the dogs act like best friends as soon as the fight is over. They might even lick each other's wounds. You should try to avoid this type of situation by crating the dogs separately when you cannot supervise them. Keep a breaking stick on hand for emergencies. This is not a sign of the "dog-fighter" as some would have you believe, but instead the sign of a caring and thoughtful owner who is prepared for any emergency. Just because you have a fire extinguisher doesn't make you an arsonist, does it?

Pit bull owners must also be aware of the remarkable fighting abilities of this breed and always keep in mind that Pit bulls have the potential to inflict serious injuries to other animals. A Pit bull may not even be the one starting the hostilities with another dog but, chances are, he will fight if provoked. Keep in mind that Pit bulls are almost always blamed and often end up paying the price at the hands of the authorities.

Every negative incident involving a Pit bull disgraces the breed's reputation and jeopardizes our right to own these great dogs!

[ShawsAPBTs]

What Every Dog Owner Needs to Know About Pit Bulls
(Written by Diane Jessup)


The thought that went through your mind when you read the above title will tell you a little something about yourself and your attitude toward dogs in general. Your internal dialogue probably went along the lines of one of the following:
a) Oh! I hate pit bulls! They should be banned. There is no reason for such vicious, horrible dogs. Besides, they aren't even really a breed; after all they aren't recognized by the AKC.

Oh! Poor pit bulls! Its all how they're raised. They have to be forced to fight. If you raise them like a [insert a breed that comes to mind here] they too, can have a generic, insipid temperament.

c) Oh! Here we go again! Another article by some idiot that doesn't know or understand or probably even own the breed. Wouldn't it be nice to see the truth about a rugged, complex and much abused companion animal?

Ignorance Is Not Bliss

First things first. By far the majority of educational pieces concerning the pit bulldog are written by "experts" who have never even owned a member of the family. I don't consider anyone to be an "expert" on any breed unless they share their bedcovers with the same. I feel strongly compelled to reassure those poor souls entitled to be wary, that I do indeed have at least the rudiments of a working knowledge of this ancient and surprisingly straightforward breed. So, hopefully I will be excused while I take amoment to explain my "credentials".

I've owned and worked professionally with pit bulls for over 15 years and share my life with about a dozen right now. I've written two well received books on the breed, The Working Pit Bull and, with Louis Colby, Colby's Book of the American Pit Bull Terrier. I recently completed a novel featuring a pit bull as well, The Dog Who Spoke With Gods, (St. Martin's Press) which will be available in June of 2001. I've titled the breed in just about everything the breed can be titled in, from AKC obedience titles to Schutzhund III, IPO III, as well as tracking, weight pull and several titles in ASCA herding dog trials. I train with positive reinforcement, and I currently restrict my sporting activities to weight pull and French ring sport. Because there is an unhappy side to the breed I love, I am, as well, POST (Police Officers Standards Training) certified as an instructor for law enforcement on dog and c--- fighting and have instructed the regional Criminal Justice Training Commission academy for years, on the same.

When Meeting A Pit Bull On The Street:

What important lessons should all dog owners learn about the contemplating of an approaching pit bull? What should you do? First and foremost, as the average dog owner walking down the street, examine your own gut feelings upon seeing this creature crest the horizon. How do you view this member of a breed undeniably victimized by many? Is your response to the animal tinged by what media reports tell you to think? Is your opinion of this animal based on a prior experience with some other animal of similar appearance or breeding? Pit bulls are under siege not only from many of their own criminally (and feeble) minded owners, but by certain elements of the "humane" movement and dog haters in general. Do you, as a "dog lover", have feelings of alarm and prejudice (meaning to "pre-judge") toward the barrel chested, grinning, good natured slob headed your way? Or, perhaps, you see a dog you expect will turn inside out with pleasure at your slightest acknowledgement of his existence. A dog who will smother the children with kisses like a politician. The answer - and the lesson learned -is that you should see neither.

You should see a dog. No more. No less.

The pit bull gives us an excellent opportunity to step back and reevaluate how we view all dogs. How we pre-judge them, how we approach them, and how we expect them to react to us. Do you throw yourself with abandon on every "doggie" you see, showing an alarming lack of respect for the animal? Or do you sniff as you pass by, nose in the air, and disdain to see any good quality in the animal because it isn't a show dog and the ears aren't quite right, or it just isn't a "nice breed", or because two months ago a dog of similar appearance killed a child in the next state over? Next time you see a pit bull (assuming you actually know what one looks like, you'd be surprised and shocked at just what gets called "pit bull" and at the number of people who want to ban a breed they can't even identify) take a moment to reflect on your inner feelings. Take a moment to be fair. Take a moment to firmly not prejudge. See what happens. See how difficult it is...

Having looked at the dog, it is now really more important that you look at the dog's owner. This too, will probably be a difficult exercise in not pre-judging! It is probable the owner is more frightening in appearance than the dog. Learn - and this is the hard part of the lesson - not to judge by appearance. Not to pre-judge. Not to be "prejudice". Disregard the dog. That which will tell you what you need to know is this: how does this dog's owner approach his/her stewardship of their animal? Is the dog off leash in a public area? Already we may have problems. Perhaps the dog is wonderful, but anyone with a dog off-leash in a public area is suspect in my book. I already question their judgment. (If they have a shock collar on their dog, simply give them up as a hopeless case at that point.) But what if the dog is on lead? Is the owner actually trying to intimidate you? Are they letting the dog lunge or otherwise show aggression toward you or your dog? In that case, you have just obtained a valuable piece of information: the owner has a problem and the owner is dangerous. The owner needs to be controlled. This is where our current laws let us down, and let us down miserably. No one seems to want laws which will hold an owner responsible for the mischief and mayhem they allow their dog to create. And so, "high risk" owners continue to plague society. A problem with a simple solution - which is ignored. Every dog owner whose dog bites someone yells that somehow THEY are the victim here. Somehow it wasn't their fault...

But perhaps the dog is coming along happily, interested but not menacing toward other dogs. Held responsibly in check by a responsible owner walking their pet in public. Is this a good time to let your happy, young, goofball, male [again, I will not insert a breed, but feel free to add what ever some to mind here] dog off his lead so he can "go meet" the other doggy? Ah! Another lesson learned... Remember what we said about people who let their dogs off lead in public places? About questioning their judgment? That applies here as well. Would you encourage your teenage son to run up to another strange teenage boy and throw himself on him in good natured play? Your son may very well end up on this year's Darwin Awards. And your dog, if you allow him to do the same, may very well end up on the same sad list of those whose genetic material will not be making it to the next generation. Not all dogs consider another dog racing madly up to them and cramming themselves into their space, to be the very best way to introduce. While many, many dogs (pit bulls included) will think this great fun, just as many dogs (pit bulls included) will not. Some find it threatening and they may very well attack. Lesson to be learned: who is at fault? The owner of the unleashed, out of control "nice" dog or the owner of the leashed and controlled dog who simply want to enjoy their walk in the park and mind their own business?

Pit bulls, like all other fad breeds in their turn, are often owned by the socially inept. You will meet some pit bulls in your life which are owned by those who sadly need an animal crutch for their own feelings of inadequacy. These owners will encourage their dogs to be vicious and unsocial and they (the owners) are a very real source for concern. Current ordinances which hold the dog responsible &endash; and make the dog pay the price - for its actions, don't touch these guys. These "high risk" owners simply allow dog after dog to be destroyed by authorities and then go out and get a new dog. Over and over. In a few years they get a new breed, and the beat goes on.

The next time you meet a pit bull, take a moment to stop and engage the owner in conversation. Ask them (nicely) about the dog. Be prepared for suspicion and defensiveness. After all, this is an owner who more likely than not adores his/her life companion, has a strong and wonderful bond with the dog, and faces almost daily threats to this friendship from every conceivable source. Neighbors, friends, family, the media, PETA and even some "humane" organizations, all sadly, often feel compelled to add to the general "fad panic" about the latest "fad breed". This dog and his/her owner are truly under constant siege, and you must forgive them this wariness. This pit bull and its human life-companion are soldiers on the front line of the new battle against companion animal ownership and the growing "anti-dog" movement. So called "breed specific legislation" - those laws which ban all dogs of a certain appearance based solely on appearance and not behavior - are a reality, a reality pit bull owners live with everyday. Imagine for a moment having a dear friend you know to be the paragon of loyalty, sweetness, patience, and good humor, constantly portrayed as "evil", unpredictable and savage, and you will begin to understand the frustration. We know that fighting dogs who have known nothing but years of unspeakable abuse, who have had their lives blighted by never ending confinement to a heavy chain, who will lick with humility the hand of the animal control officer who has come to end their life, and we know that no other breed could withstand so much neglect and hate, and still have that pure love of man shine through to the end. The injustice of it can drive you mad. Perhaps only Doberman owners who lived through the 1970's, and now Rottweiler owners (a recent headline indicating high risk owner are abandoning the pit bull in favor of this guardian breed screamed "Rottweilers Now Deadliest Dog") can understand. It is a difficult thing to understand at all.

So talk to a pit bull owner and you may be surprised. It may be the dog is "simply" a beloved family pet, but I wouldn't be surprised if you found out that the dog was a competitor in agility, accompanied its owner to work each day, or was even a service dog for the disabled. The pit bulldog, if it is a normal, sound member of its breed, will probably greet you like a long lost friend, turning inside out with pleasure and dancing out a jig with its front feet, prompting you to wonder how in the heck these dogs got "a bad name" anyway. It is perfectly true that the dog may not by friendly with other dogs, being an animal which does not hesitate to test his mettle against others of his kind. Then again, he may be a complete fool, dancing and bowing and wanting nothing more than to play with your dog.

That is the lesson learned from the pit bull. That is all you need to know about them. All they ask - and deserve - is to not be pre-judged.

[ShawsAPBTs]

FIND THE PIT BULL GAME

[ShawsAPBTs]

CALLED AS SEEN: Got A Problem?

A few of us were vicious, you hype, “So are all the rest.”
Creativity in media puts liberty to the test.
These laws against this noble breed are laws that we don’t need.
Let’s all write our Congressmen, Come on! “It’s deed, not breed!”

They call me “Baby Killer”, and so are all my sons.
They cry for my extinction with every lie that’s spun.
They prey on fears of idiots, and if the truth be told -
They wouldn’t know a bulldog if one bit them on the nose.

If all the pit bull “experts” would use their decayed brains,
And try to get to know me, they’d never feel the same.
For I am filled with courage, along with heart and drive.
And when the dust has settled, you’ll see that I’ve survived.

For my master and his household, I’ve lots of love to give.
And with a heart as big as Texas, I’ll die that he may live.
The truth in most all cases will come out in the end.
And all shall know the truth and see That I’m A Damn Good Friend!!!

Author Unknown

[Paula Murff]

That absolutely was what I wanted to hear and see. You are a very good writer and
so very knowledgeable in your training and handling of your animals. I have been
on the forefront for over 4 years in the fight to prevent Breed Specific Legislation
against any breed.

I have rescued, rehabed rehomed and unfortunately euthanzied dalmatians, greyhounds
chihuahua's and many mix breeds, simply because of the misunderstanding of proper
care and training. I love the pit bull breed and will fight whenever and whereever to
keep them from being banned or abused.

My one hope before I am no longer able to make any changes in our area is to develop
a dog park and proper, positive training with activities organized and specialized to
all dogs, no water what breed age activity level.

We have been using canines as companions for food gathering, entertainment (the
beautiful and funny dalmatians were court jesters), for companions and unconditional
love often only received from the animal world.

Thank you so much for your posts and information and if I can be of any help to you
in any way possible, don't hesitate.

Paula

[ShawsAPBTs]

No problem! However I can't take the credit for the article "What Every Dog Owner Needs to Know About Pit Bulls" - it was written by Diane Jessup.

I hope more people will try to learn as much as they can about the APBT before they make judgment calls. We need all the help we can get to fight breed-specific legislation.

I meant to say earlier that while ADBA isn't the key word to look for in the ads; there are still alot of backyard breeders that are breeding ADBA, AKC, even CKC-registered 'pit bulls' that shouldn't even own dogs, much less be breeding them.

It makes me sick to open the Tradewinds each week and see how many advertisements for bulldogs there are....26 in this weeks issue alone. I would be surprised if more than 25% of those advertised were bred with regards to temperament and stability. Unfortunately - for every responsible APBT owner, there seems to be 2 irresponsible ones.

I would like to see a 'dog school' - a place new (and old!) dog owners (or potential dog owners) could go to educate themselves about owning and interacting with dogs. There are entirely too many people now that just don't know how to act around dogs (or any animal for that matter); and it could only benefit themselves and their pets.

Anyway - I just thought of those few things I forgot to mention earlier...

Thanks again for your dedication, Paula!

[ShawsAPBTs]

Sgt. Stubby

This Pit Bull, of unknown descent, was found by Private John Robert Conroy on the campus of Yale University in 1917 while training for deployment to the European front of WWI. Stubby was a brown and white patched little puppy with a 'stubbed' tail, hence his name Stubby.
During the course of his stay at the camp with Private Conroy, and the other service men, Stubby became familiar with all of the bugle calls, the drill marching routines, and even learned to give a dog's version of a salute. He would would put his right paw on his right eyebrow when a salute was executed by others around him. Stubby's ability to salute struck a chord with the training camp commander and the dog was granted permission to remain with Private Conroy, even though pets were not allowed in the training compound.

Training finally came to an end and the camp packed up. Private Conroy was not willing to abandon Stubby when he left so instead he smuggled his beloved dog aboard the passenger truck that was transporting the men to the train depot. Next he smuggled Stubby aboard the train carrying the soldiers to the seaport of Newport News, Virginia. After successfully reaching the seaport, Stubby was concealed and brought on board a naval transport ship, heading for Europe. Stubby spent his first twelve hours or so hiding in the ships coal bin. Bye this time the ship was too far out to sea to turn back so Private Conroy brought him out on deck. Stubby became very popular with all the sailors and soldiers, and one sailor even made him a set of 'dog tags' (I.D. tags that soldiers wear to identify themselves).

The long sea voyage came to an end and now Stubby had to be smuggled off the ship into a foreign country, a real problem for Private Conroy and his dog. Private Conroy nestled Stubby, who had grown quite a bit since he was first discovered in the training camp, under his arm and draped his coat over his shoulder so it would hang down his body and conceal Stubby. It worked. They had made it to Europe.

It wasn't long before Private Conroy's new commander discovered that Stubby was with him. After listening to the story about Stubby's voyage, and the other soldiers who were attached to the dog, the commander allowed the dog to stay for 'morale purposes'.

Several weeks passed and then the orders came down. Private Conroy's division, the 102d Infantry, which was a sub-division of the 26th Yankee Division, were heading to the front lines in France. Stubby was given special orders from Private Conroy's commander making him a member and special mascot of the 102d Infantry division. These orders allowed him to go to the front lines with Private Conroy and the rest of the soldiers.

The 102d reached the front lines on the 5th of February, 1918. Things there were cold, wet and very dangerous. The soldiers lived in dug-out ditches called trenches. Water and mud gathered shin deep in these trenches, making it very unhealthy for the men and Stubby. Sniper fire was exchanged between the Germans and the allies constantly and men were killed and injured often. Stubby became accustomed to his new surroundings and learned to deal with the loud rifles and heavy artillery fire. All remained 'trench normal' until the day a large gas attack was launched by the Germans. The gas was a mixture of chemicals that burned the skin off, caused the lungs to blister, and the eyes to burn. This caused blindness, loss of limbs, and death in many cases. Stubby's first battle injury occurred due to gas exposure. He was taken to a nearby field hospital and nursed back to health. His exposure to the gas made him sensitive to even the slightest hint of the vapor. This came in handy several weeks later when an early morning gas attack was launched. The men in his portion of the trench were sleeping and were unaware that gas had just been launched. Stubby picked up the scent of the gas and ran through the trench barking and biting at the soldiers shirts and boots waking them. Some of the soldiers woke up and realized what was happening and sounded the gas alarm. Many men were saved that morning. Stubby left the trench to avoid the gas and didn't return until it was all clear.

After Stubby's return to the trenches he became very useful in locating wounded men in 'no-mans land'. No-mans land was the ground area between the Allied and German trenches. It was called no-mans land because if you became stuck there you were almost sure to be killed by snipers since the available cover was very sparce. Stubby would listen for injured and lost men shouting in english. He would then go out to them and bark for paramedics or lead the uninjured ones back to the safety of the trenches. The men were more than greatful and treated Stubby as a golden asset to the division.

One day, while on patrol in no-mans land, Stubby heard a noise coming from a small patch of brush. He went to investigate and found a German spy who was mapping out the layout of the Allied trenches. The German soldier tried to call Stubby to him but it didn't work. Stubby put his ears back and began to bark. The German began to run and Stubby took off after him, biting the soldier on his legs causing him to trip and fall. Stubby then attacked the soldier's arms and finally bit and held onto his rear end. Bye this time some of the Allied soldiers had come to see what all the noise was. When they saw that the dog had captured a spy they cheered. Stubby had once again proven himself a real soldier. The commander of the 102d used this act of bravery to put Stubby in for a promotion to the ranks of the Noncommissioned Officers by awarding him the rank of Sergeant. He became the first dog of his breed to be given rank in the armed forces.

Again the Germans attacked, except this time it was a full out Infantry attack. German soldiers poured over no-mans land firng rifles and throwing grenades. Stubby and Private Conroy were tucked down in a bunker. Private Conroy poked his head and rifle out to fire at the enemy and Stubby stepped all the way out of the bunker. The area looked clear but a German soldier, out of Stubby's sight, threw a grenade at the bunker. The grenade explode and Stubby caught a large amount of shrapnel in his chest and right leg. He lay there motionless and limp and the men thought he was dead. Private Conroy picked him up and checked for a heartbeat and breathing. Stubby was still alive so Private Conroy rushed him to the field hospital. The doctors patched Stubby up as best they could but he had to be sent to a Red Cross recovery hospital for follow-up surgeries and recovery.

Stubby became well enough to move around and spent his time at the Red Cross hospital visiting wounded men and socializing with the very caring nurses. He was a great help to the morale of the wounded men and again showed himself to be a hero to the wounded. Stubby eventually recovered fully and was returned to the front lines with the 102d Infantry Division.

WWI ended on the 11th of November, 1918. Sergeant Stubby served in 17 battles during his stay in Europe. He also visited with President Woodrow Wilson after leading the American troops in a pass and review parade for the President in Europe. When he met President Wilson he gave his trademark salute and the president loved it.

After returning to the United States in April of 1919, Stubby was given several different medals. One was a gold medal from the Humane Education Society, presented by General John J. Pershing, head of the American armies. He was enterd into a dog show, under protest, and won. Stubby also became a member of the American Legion, visited the Whitehouse twice and met both President Harding and President Coolidge. He later became an honorary member of the YMCA and his membership card guaranteed three bones a day and a warm place to sleep. He was a very popular and heroic dog, loved by all.

Stubby died on the 16th of March, 1926. He lived his final years with his beloved owner John Robert Conroy, the man who had rescued the lost pup so many years before. Stubby returned the favor more than once and lived a very full and happy life. Rest in peace Stubby, and thank you for your brave and loyal service 'over there'.

[Paula Murff]

OK, enough now you made me truly cry. Long time since I heard that story,
Thanks,
P

[trouble]

When I was young, we had pits as pets. One even rode w/ daddy as his backup. He was real good at treeing people who ran. He never hurt anyone but sure gave them a scare.

[Truthsayer]

People that raise dogs to be killers are the bad entities here, NOT THE DOGS... we need laws that severely punish people for abusing animals and those that raise dogs for the 'sport' of fighting/killing... eradicating or controlling specific breeds isn't going to do a bit of good.... ANY dog can be trained to be a killer... not just pits...

[Psykottik]

Maybe we should eradicate the human species as well. Look at us. Apparently we can't be controlled, either.

[Paula Murff]

Maybe the part of the human species which is just plain determined to
stay "stupid" rather than attempting to progess into higher levels should
just stop reproducing.
Gosh, I wish those damn steriods would let me sleep.
P

[Psykottik]

Paula Murff, on Sep 3 2007, 03:17 AM, said:

Gosh, I wish those damn steriods would let me sleep.
P

Hmmmm.....I never had that problem...